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is a certain titanium flange adapted to my requirements? EN -1 standard applicable?

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is a certain titanium flange adapted to my requirements? EN -1 standard applicable?

is a certain titanium flange adapted to my requirements? EN -1 standard applicable?

swiss037

(Industrial)

(OP)

12 Jan 14 07:43

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that titanium flanges are not really standardized, are they? However, they seem not too uncommon:
http://www.hartbv.nl/net-book.php?op=cms&pagei...
http://www.hwn-titan.de/en/pro_rohrzubehoer.html
http://www.nisomet.ch/produkteformen/rohrefittinge...
In Europe or elsewhere, do they usually have the same dimensions as standard steel, or aluminium flanges?

For my application (40 bar at 250°C), if the flange was steel, I would refer to EN -1 and pick a PN 63, DN 150 (Type 11 welding neck).
Unfortunately, EN -1 to EN -4 standards are for steel, cast iron, copper (and composite materials...) and aluminium alloys and that's it.

I have never used the EN -1 standard and don't have access to it yet, but would it indicate me if a titanium flange, with dimensions according to EN -1, is suited to my requirements?
FYI, EN -1 is the EN standard for
Flanges and their joints - Design rules for gasketed circular flange connections - Part 1: Calculation.

I've read that the
ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code SECTION VIII (Rules for Construction of Pressure Vessels), Division 1, Appendix 2: RULES FOR BOLTED FLANGE CONNECTIONS
WITH RING TYPE GASKETS
could be useful in this context, but "

Would that be the preferred route for a European engineer, though?
This work has certainly been done numerous times in the last few decades, am I missing something?

Thanks for reading!

Hi,Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that titanium flanges are not really standardized, are they? However, they seem not too uncommon:In Europe or elsewhere, do they usually have the same dimensions as standard steel, or aluminium flanges?For my application (40 bar at 250°C), if the flange was steel, I would refer to EN -1 and pick a PN 63, DN 150 (Type 11 welding neck).Unfortunately, EN -1 to EN -4 standards are for steel, cast iron, copper (and composite materials...) and aluminium alloys and that's it.I have never used the EN -1 standard and don't have access to it yet, but would it indicate me if a titanium flange, with dimensions according to EN -1, is suited to my requirements?FYI, EN -1 is the EN standard forI've read that thecould be useful in this context, but " unfortunately this would result in gasket dependent ratings ". Sounds reasonable, right?Would that be the preferred route for a European engineer, though?This work has certainly been done numerous times in the last few decades, am I missing something?Thanks for reading!

RE: is a certain titanium flange adapted to my requirements? EN -1 standard applicable?

XL83NL

(Mechanical)

13 Jan 14 03:11
Most EU-based NoBo's and clients however nowadays will accept ASME standards more easily, so applying VIII-1 app 2 would be OK, I think.
In the context of the PED 97/23/EC I'm sure you're on the good page if you need to qualify such a 'custom'-engineered Ti-flange for a category application.

Now here coems the fun part. EN -1 calculations are very though, from what I understand, and far less easy than VIII-1 app 2 (allthough it took us quite some hours to standardize an excel calc. sheet for an VIII-1 app 2 flange, its still way less than what EN -1 would require - I believe it cant even be done through excel).

As an alternative, for EN -1 flanges, you might want to look into purchase
It's a piece of software designed by AMTEC, which is run by (amongst others) Manferd Schaaf. I met him at last years ASME PVP, and he's a great guy when it comes to knowledge on flanges joints. let alone one of the experts worldwide in this field.
Furthermore Manfred is in the committee for EN standards, he should be able to answer most of your questions, so I think AMTEC should be able to give you great support.
PS: never, ever, do any automated software calculations without knowing the technical background of these calculations. Check EN first to have a rough understanding of it's rules. Doing the complete and exact calc yourself however is I think too time consuming.

How all this happened in the past is a big question to me too. It would be great if any experienced engineers could shed some light on that.
Maybe the former DIN standards covered Ti-flanges.

On a side note; a few months ago I had to use EN flanges in Alloy C-276, or at least flanges with a bolt pitch circle diameter that could be attached to EN-flanges.
They did not 'exist' (in the books), although I could easily get them. We bought them with ASTM material requirements.
The way we qualified them for the pipe spec was to do an VIII-1 app. 2 calc on the flanges, assuming a minimum external load (force and moment), to calculate if it would be strong enough, and if it would leak or not.

The preferred route might be to use EN standards, as (at least what I read from your post) you're EU-based, so this will most likely assume the highest conformance to EU directives and such.Most EU-based NoBo's and clients however nowadays will accept ASME standards more easily, so applying VIII-1 app 2 would be OK, I think.In the context of the PED 97/23/EC I'm sure you're on the good page if you need to qualify such a 'custom'-engineered Ti-flange for a category application.Now here coems the fun part. EN -1 calculations are very though, from what I understand, and far less easy than VIII-1 app 2 (allthough it took us quite some hours to standardize an excel calc. sheet for an VIII-1 app 2 flange, its still way less than what EN -1 would require - I believe it cant even be done through excel).As an alternative, for EN -1 flanges, you might want to look into purchase TEMES fl.cal It's a piece of software designed by AMTEC, which is run by (amongst others) Manferd Schaaf. I met him at last years ASME PVP, and he's a great guy when it comes to knowledge on flanges joints. let alone one of the experts worldwide in this field.Furthermore Manfred is in the committee for EN standards, he should be able to answer most of your questions, so I think AMTEC should be able to give you great support.PS: never, ever, do any automated software calculations without knowing the technical background of these calculations. Check EN first to have a rough understanding of it's rules. Doing the complete and exact calc yourself however is I think too time consuming.How all this happened in the past is a big question to me too. It would be great if any experienced engineers could shed some light on that.Maybe the former DIN standards covered Ti-flanges.On a side note; a few months ago I had to use EN flanges in Alloy C-276, or at least flanges with a bolt pitch circle diameter that could be attached to EN-flanges.They did not 'exist' (in the books), although I could easily get them. We bought them with ASTM material requirements.The way we qualified them for the pipe spec was to do an VIII-1 app. 2 calc on the flanges, assuming a minimum external load (force and moment), to calculate if it would be strong enough, and if it would leak or not.

RE: is a certain titanium flange adapted to my requirements? EN -1 standard applicable?

swiss037

(Industrial)

(OP)

2 Mar 14 13:44

so for anyone facing a similar situation, here's what I'm concluding:
- start with a geometry (e.g. EN -1 PN 63, DN 150, Type 11, Form B)
- get your material's properties in ASME BPVC Section II, Part D (the only known for Ti)
- then:

• either follow ASME BPVC Section VIII, Division 1, Appendix 2
• or follow EN -1 (which isn't "light")

this can be done with the help of software such as TEMES fl.cal (costs at least EUR and for Ti you need to enter allowable stress values manually) or others*.
- continue with choice of gasket, bolts (actually you should have a rough idea about that before doing the previous work)

*: does anyone know FlangeValid, for instance? the company's website flangevalid.com has awesome ressources on flange joints, especially in German. they also mention the following software: TÜV DIMy, PV-Elite, Compress and Probad

here's a bit of context: this work is for my studies (almost no supervision), but the client and his needs are real. as a result:

• I have to refrain from going too far (buying software, spending too much time unefficiently, ...)
• I'm motivated and I wouldn't be surprised if the work suddenly became a true contract

PS: I don't think any DIN standard ever covered Ti-flanges.

thank you very much! that was long ago but I thought just "staring" your post would do, since I didn't have much to add.so for anyone facing a similar situation, here's what I'm concluding:- start with a geometry (e.g. EN -1 PN 63, DN 150, Type 11, Form B)- get your material's properties in ASME BPVC Section II, Part D (the only known for Ti)- then:this can be done with the help of software such as TEMES fl.cal (costs at least EUR and for Ti you need to enter allowable stress values manually) or others*.- continue with choice of gasket, bolts (actually you should have a rough idea about that before doing the previous work)*: does anyone know FlangeValid, for instance? the company's website flangevalid.com has awesome ressources on flange joints, especially in German. they also mention the following software: TÜV DIMy, PV-Elite, Compress and Probadhere's a bit of context: this work is for my studies (almost no supervision), but the client and his needs are real. as a result:PS: I don't think any DIN standard ever covered Ti-flanges.

RE: is a certain titanium flange adapted to my requirements? EN -1 standard applicable?

moltenmetal

(Chemical)

3 Mar 14 07:36

The reason titanium isn't a B16.5 standard flange material is that it's a waste of material to make a whole flange from this stuff.

Yes, you can buy small 150# blinds, and there are a few occasions when you have a flange wetted on the outside etc. (then the big question is, what do you use for flange bolting?). Unlike with Hastelloy, there's little to no advantage to having the same material through thickness: unalloyed titanium has a high strength to weight ratio but is weaker, particularly at temperature, than much cheaper but less corrosion resistant materials. Most of the time, you'd be better off with a lap joint stub end and a backing flange made out of something cheaper than using a solid titanium flange. If it's a true blind, all you need is full face gasket. If you're drilling and tapping a blind, you're stuck doing an ASME Appendix 2 calculation using the properties of the plate or forging the flange was made from.

RE: is a certain titanium flange adapted to my requirements? EN -1 standard applicable?

SnTMan

(Mechanical)

3 Mar 14 10:39

As an aside, you can buy B16.5 pattern flanges made of PVC, but they are NOT B16.5 flanges.

Regards,

Mike

RE: is a certain titanium flange adapted to my requirements? EN -1 standard applicable?

XL83NL

(Mechanical)

3 Mar 14 11:12

Quote:

As an aside, you can buy B16.5 pattern flanges made of PVC, but they are NOT B16.5 flanges.

Same for Ti-gr.2

Same for Ti-gr.2

RE: is a certain titanium flange adapted to my requirements? EN -1 standard applicable?

MJCronin

(Mechanical)

3 Mar 14 12:30

Recently, I was involved with a series of Ti-GR2 vessels with flanged nozzles.

I received bids from all major US & Canadian fabricators. I asked about pressure/temperature ratings for the Class 150 flanged nozzles.

They told me:

- The titanium equivalent to the ASME B16.5 pressure-temperature ratings do not exist

- All flanged nozzles on TI based equipment are lap joint type with carbon steel backing rings.

- If I were to provide operating temperatures/pressures and nozzle loads, they would be happy to provide an FEA analysis (for an additional fee)

I agree with moltenmetal... Virtually no one specifies solid TI bolted flangesRecently, I was involved with a series of Ti-GR2 vessels with flanged nozzles.I received bids from all major US & Canadian fabricators. I asked about pressure/temperature ratings for the Class 150 flanged nozzles.They told me:- The titanium equivalent to the ASME B16.5 pressure-temperature ratings do not exist- All flanged nozzles on TI based equipment are lap joint type with carbon steel backing rings.- If I were to provide operating temperatures/pressures and nozzle loads, they would be happy to provide an FEA analysis (for an additional fee)

MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer
Venture Engineering & Construction
www.VentureEngr.com

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News

Choosing the Right Flange for Your Project &#; Veer Impex

Veerexports

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5 min read

GIANT ANODE are exported all over the world and different industries with quality first. Our belief is to provide our customers with more and better high value-added products. Let's create a better future together.

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Sep 21,

--

Choosing the Right Flange for Your Project

Flanges might seem like small components in a larger system, but their significance cannot be underestimated. As the leading flange manufacturer, supplier, importer, and stockist in India, Veer Impex understands the critical role that the right flange plays in ensuring the efficiency, safety, and durability of industrial projects. With a diverse range of sizes, specifications, standards, materials Like Stainless Steel Flanges, Carbon Steel, Alloy Steel, Duplex and super Duplex Steel, and Nickel Alloys (Like; Inconel, Hastelloy, Monel, etc.), grades, and types, including slip-on flanges, weld neck flanges, blind flanges, threaded flanges, socket weld flanges, lap joint flanges, RTJ flanges, orifice flanges, long weld neck flanges, spectacle blind flanges, forged flanges, and plate flanges, Veer Impex empowers you to make the best choice for your unique project requirements.

In this guide, we will explore the key aspects of choosing the right flange to ensure project success.

The Importance of Selecting the Right Flange

Flanges are essential components in various industries and applications, serving as connectors that join pipes, valves, pumps, and other equipment together. The proper selection of a flange is of paramount importance to ensure the integrity, safety, and efficiency of a system.

Flange Types We Offer

When it comes to flanges, one size certainly doesn&#;t fit all. We offers a diverse selection of flange types, each catering to specific needs.

Slip-on flanges are designed to slide over the pipe and then be welded in place. They have a slightly larger diameter than the pipe, allowing them to easily slip over it. These flanges are commonly used for applications with low pressure and temperature conditions. Slip-on flanges are easy to align and install, making them a convenient choice for projects that require quick assembly.

• Weld Neck Flanges:

Weld neck flanges are known for their enhanced structural integrity and resistance to high pressure and temperature conditions. They have a long tapered neck that provides reinforcement to the flange and reduces stress concentration. Weld neck flanges are suitable for critical applications where safety and durability are paramount. The welding process ensures a strong connection between the flange and the pipe.

• Blind Flanges:

Blind flanges are used to close the end of a pipe or vessel, effectively blocking off the flow. They are essential for maintenance, repairs, or future expansion of the system. Blind flanges prevent fluid or gas from entering or exiting the pipe and create a seal to isolate specific sections of the pipeline. These flanges are available in various materials and sizes to accommodate different project requirements.

• Socket Weld Flanges:

Socket weld flanges are designed to be connected to the pipe by inserting the pipe into the socket of the flange and then welding it in place. These flanges provide a smooth bore connection, reducing turbulence and pressure loss in the pipeline. Socket weld flanges are commonly used for smaller pipes and systems with limited space, where a strong and secure connection is required.

• Threaded Flanges:

Threaded flanges have internal threads that allow them to be screwed onto the pipe. They are often used in applications where welding is not possible or desired. Threaded flanges are suitable for low-pressure environments and are commonly used for smaller pipe sizes.

• Lap Joint Flanges:

Lap joint flanges consist of two parts: a stub end and a backing flange. The stub end is welded to the pipe, while the backing flange is used to secure the joint. These flanges are often used in systems requiring frequent dismantling for maintenance or cleaning.

• RTJ (Ring Type Joint) Flanges:

RTJ flanges are used in high-pressure and high-temperature applications. They feature a grooved surface and a metal ring gasket that forms a seal when compressed between two RTJ flanges. These flanges provide a reliable seal in challenging conditions.

• Orifice Flanges:

Orifice flanges are used in systems where flow measurement is required. They feature a small opening (orifice) that can accommodate a flow meter or valve. The orifice size is carefully calculated to accurately measure fluid flow rates.

• Long Weld Neck Flanges:

Long-weld neck flanges are similar to regular weld neck flanges but have an extended neck. This design is useful in situations where extra space is needed between the flange and the pipe, such as insulation or thermal expansion considerations.

• Spectacle Blind Flanges:

Spectacle blind flanges are used to isolate sections of a pipeline temporarily. They consist of a metal plate with a hole and a solid portion. By rotating the plate, the hole aligns with the pipe to allow flow or blocks it to stop flow.

• Forged Flanges:

Forged flanges are manufactured through a forging process, which involves shaping the material under high pressure. These flanges are known for their strength and durability and are often used in high-pressure and critical applications.

• Plate Flanges:

Plate flanges are flat, circular discs with holes for bolting to pipes or equipment. They are commonly used in low-pressure applications and where welding is not required.

Each type of flange has its own set of advantages and is chosen based on factors like pressure, temperature, pipe material, and specific project requirements.

Choosing the Right Flange for Your Project

Selecting the appropriate flange involves considering various factors such as the type of fluid or gas being transported, pressure and temperature conditions, pipe material, and overall project requirements.

Here&#;s a step-by-step guide to choosing the right flange:

• Identify Project Requirements: Understand the specifics of your project, including the medium being transported, pressure, temperature, and pipe dimensions.
• Consult Experts: Our team at Veer Impex is always ready to assist you in making an informed decision. Feel free to reach out for expert advice tailored to your project.
• Consider Material and Grade: Flanges are available in various materials such as Stainless Steel Flanges, Carbon Steel, Alloy Steel, Duplex and super Duplex Steel, and Nickel Alloys (Like; Inconel, Hastelloy, Monel, etc.). Choose a material that suits the environment and enhances the longevity of your system.
• Select the Appropriate Type: Based on the application and installation method, opt for the right flange type from our extensive range.
• Ensure Compatibility: Confirm that the chosen flange type and size are compatible with your pipes, valves, and other equipment.

Materials-Wise Grades &#; We Offer &#; Flanges

Nickel 200/201

Monel 400/monel k-500

Inconel 600/601/625

Inconel 800/800h/800ht

Inconel 718/825

Hastelloy c4/c22/c276

Smo 254

Duplex

Super duplex /

Haynes alloy

Stellite

Waspaloy alloys

Stainless steel 301

Stainless steel 304/304l

Stainless steel 310/310s

Stainless steel 316/316l

Stainless steel 347

Stainless steel 409/409m

Stainless steel 446

Stainless steel 904l

Stainless steel 17&#;4 ph

Alloy 20

Titanium grade

Cupro nickel 90/10

Cupro nickel 70/30

Carbon steel

Mild steel

Copper

Applications of Flanges

Flanges play a crucial role in various industries and applications due to their ability to connect, support, and seal pipes, valves, and equipment. Here are some common applications of flanges:

• Piping Systems
• Chemical Processing
• Oil and Gas Industry
• Power Generation
• Water and Wastewater Treatment
• Shipbuilding and Marine Industry
• Aerospace Applications
• Food and Beverage Industry
• Construction Industry
• Automotive Industry
• Pharmaceutical Industry
• Mining Industry
• Industrial Equipment
• Other Applications

Final Words!

Choosing the right flange for your project is a decision that warrants careful consideration. With Veer Impex&#;s extensive range of flanges, including slip-on, weld neck, blind, threaded, socket weld, lap joint, RTJ, orifice, long weld neck, spectacle blind, forged, and plate flanges, you have the power to tailor your selection to your project&#;s specific needs. Contact us at , or today and experience the difference of working with India&#;s leading flanges supplier. Your project&#;s success starts with the right flange choice, and that choice begins with us.

is a certain titanium flangetitanium flange adapted to my requirements? ...

Choosing the Right Flange for Your Project — Veer Impex